My understanding is that TOTAL LEFT is Totalitarianism - full control and ownership by the government - Communism or Socialism. In this view, People exist to serve the state. TOTAL RIGHT is Freedom and Anarchy - no rules. In this view, The people do what they want.
Both extremes are dangerous and inhumane!
"Politics" by definition, is the structure of policies or rules by which the society is to be run. Therefore, there is no TOTAL RIGHT in politics since by definition, any policy is an attempt to maintain some kind of order. The need for some control is accepted: LEFT is maximum control, and RIGHT is minimal control.
So in Right Wing Politics, the State exists to serve the common good of the individual (to instigate and maintain common laws for the good of all). It is a minimalist philosophy - that rules are there only to protect individuals and their association - the least control means the most freedom - Freedom within limits. The rules are there to prevent viloations against the individual, or actions which endanger the stability of the agreeable association of individuals.
Governmental control in the view of the RIGHT, is there to maintain the freedom and rights of the participating individuals within an agreed set of boundaries, but the more control the government has, the more to the LEFT the system becomes.
Now these are MY views, that's why I'm posting this - I'm not sure of how well MY use of these terms "fits" the common definition. Help?
You say "the guys on the island were very left, helping and sharing". This is going back to my very question "What is left?" In my opinion, there is nothing left about them. They are not involved actively in this society for the society's sake, but for their own. Yes, I concede (and love) that it is a collective effort for the common good. But it is for the common good of each individual. There is "some" control, as they have all agreed to specialize & contribute. So if you have a different concept of "left" than me, please explain.
That government wants us to remain in debt to control us, is a socialist strategy. That, in my opinion is a strategy which supports more and more control over the individual - hence left (in my book).
Let me think... Okay I'm stopping that it's giving me a brain ache. LEFT; a community management view of equality and communication to achieve a good living standard. RIGHT; A community is free to do as they want within the laws with greater individual leadership and freedom to achieve a good living standard.
Oh, so Geoff ... Both LEFT & RIGHT have the same goal - to achieve a good living standard? Who decides what that living standard is? for L & R? How is it enforced? for L & R?
Yes we agree - we are both frustrated by what we see. But what makes you say we are poles apart? I also agree with you that government authority has taken us for a ride. But that is true for all systems of government.
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton
The communist in authority has a tendency towards the left - towards the increase of power. The socialist in authority has the same tendency - but he has to do it more covertly! Hence, Socialism. (or even softer - Fabian Socialism) Someone once said that communism is merely socialism in a hurry. Both systems are collectivist in nature - taking more and more power away from the common man and handing over more and more power to the authorities. Trading freedom for security, quality for equality, global trade for national abundance, etc Did you know that even our National Constitution is subordinate to International Treaties? One rule for ALL people - regardless of religion, ethics, culture, morals, common good, or rationality. Who decides our global laws - a cesspool of government officials who are on the payroll of the exploiters themselves. (often unbeknowingly).
What we want is true representative government (govt. representing the people's requirements) Not this sham democracy.
I wish I could do something about it! But not only do I feel like I dont' have the power to do so, I also feel ill equipped to do so, and wouldn't know where to begin. The ideals of communism are amazing, although most people confuse it with socialism, which is not so great. But these things never work in practice because we dont' trust each other and we are inevitable selfish.
What country are you in? Australia is Socialist although I don't think they would openly admit it.
Why do I attack socialism? Because even though their methods are different, their aim is the same as communism - total control. They elevate control, piece by piece, from family to local gov't, from local to state, from state to federal, and ultimately to international control.
The average person has less and less power to voice his objections in the process.
The freedom you have to do things is reducing. I heard that the anti-terrorist laws now allow the police to enter your premises without a warrant. I don't know if that is true - but heck!, they didn't ask anybody if that was ok with us now did they. They are trading our freedom for a trivial (if not entirely ineffective) measure of improved security. That their excuse for more control - like Port Arthur & gun control.
The money (or purchasing power) you have is diminishing too. But that's another intriguing story.
And again you are right about the polly with the dream! It must be the hardest job on earth - to be a polly with integrity. Yep - they squash anyone they can't control. Did you see the film "Dave"? It's a fun film - Senator Nance was labelled "a boy scout" because he had ideas, and integrity. How the hell did he get into the Whitehouse with those credentials???? We even have local examples of diligent people who were annihilated by gossip and political bagging, and then finished off quite nicely by the press.
Well, we're obviously disappointed with what we've got. I think the first step is to understand exactly what it is we want! We've gotta have something to shoot at! Your thoughts?
i like to read more than comment, often words are shallow and hollow but often i hear gems, all questions but no answers, words and no action, and when there is action it is mostly the innocent to get hurt., but true to yourself and get your head down. hope blinky returns, he may start a revolution
I believe there is value in dialogue and discussion - even if there are no immediate solutions.
Who knows what opportunities will arise and when? History is not linear. there are unexpected turns in the road. Superpowers and cultures can die suddenly, unexpected new movements can emerge from nowhere - and evolve into very different institutions than the wise predicted... Just as the Ring of power seems within Sauron's infernal grasp, powerless little hobbits - or Koalas ;) rise up for 'such a time as this"
The battle will not be over in this age, evil in the hearts of wo/men will always erode the good and the weak but the faithful must always hope! Who knows when 4 children will reluctantly tumble through an old wardrobe and be used of Aslan to demolish the white witch's empire!
Marx proposed the abolition of Christianity in particular.
Either the state is to serve the people, or it is to control them - and Marx wisely understood that it is impossible to achieve control of free-thinking, personally responsible, land owning, family loving people like Christians.
Did you know that the first society to attempt communism (in the modern era) were the quakers? Even with their devout Christian beliefs and practices, the saying of Lord Acton proved again to be true ... that "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". It wasn't until they re-established private ownership of land and the resulting personal responsibility that they were able to recover from their pending disaster.
I'm not sure of the specifics of the situation, but I'm sure I can dig up some qualifying material.
Oh yes, and about moving from Socialism to Communism - These two terms, if they must be distinguished between, are merely methods of achieving the same ends (coercion/deception on the one hand and force on the other).
That common end is collectivist control - or Totalitarianism!
i think you may have missed the point, we put people in a box depending on their political bias and we tend to shut the out and not listen to views whether we agree or disagree with their view. i am sad that people do not treat people as worthwhile,
Treating people as worthwhile is my whole point! There are systems entrenched in society that do not serve the individual but rather - exploit them! The healthcare system, the monetary system, the political system, etc.
Society should exist to serve the citizen, not the other way round. For instance, why do our leaders send our troops to the Middle East to fight other people's battles? In most cases the intent behind these military exercises are suspicious to say the least!
Why should we sell our freedom to support the commercial interests of our world neighbours? (or gain their commercial favour)?
there is nothing suspicious about our role in the middl east and other places, it is all to do with greed, (look at the wheat joke & PM with his memory loss),
we did not sell our freedom, we have never had freedom in the first place to sell.
we as people do not seem any different, we all want power and wealth, depends where you are on the pecking order.
Paragraph 1: I say "true" - I'm just being a bit soft in language.
Paragraph 2: Sure - what little freedom we have, is becoming more and more blatantly removed from us. But there is always freedom within limits, even though those limits are increasingly imposed upon us by the powerful. For instance, Blinky said earlier that he has freedom to do things, but no money! So he has an artificially restricted amount of freedom. It is this increase in control (and consequential erosion of liberties) which I abhor.
Paragraph 3: About POWER and WEALTH, “We all want power and wealth” – again true, but to what extent? Power to control others (irrespective of their wishes)? Wealth at the expense of other people’s wealth? These extents are beyond the wants of most people.
All people have a right (in my opinion) to the power to exercise their own freedom as responsible fellow citizens of this world, and to protect their family in their community.
All people have a right (in my opinion) to at least the minimum wealth which will enable them to lead a peaceful and fulfilled life.
With the assumption that personal freedom & the right to live a peaceful & fulfilled life are our inalienable rights, observe that the discussion about left & right, collectivism & individualism, etc., is all about accepting a proposed direction - either towards or away from our personal responsibility and ability to protect these rights.
go ahead and kill your neighbour, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of heaven, we can justify the end, ther'e w'ot be any trumpet blowing come the judgement day, when one tin soldier rides away.
sorry showing my age. bring back the songs and spirit of the seventies, what happen to the revolution.
what was that sky hooks line, we all got old... sorry can't remember the rest, gee showing my are as well. sorry knight rider, but they were good times
By "minimum wealth" I mean for a person to have enough money to live a decent life - which, I believe is the right of every person, whether he works or not!
Did I say anything about health? Anyhow, yes - I believe that a decent life includes good health.
I believe this "decent life" is the right of every person to have. I agree that it's an ideal, but we all (each and every individual) should have the freedom and power to pursue it.
So what do YOU think is a decent life? - give me your minimum requirements! Let's define it!
Of course there are answers, but they may be difficult to implement on a global scale. The further our rights are removed from us (ie. up the scale from local, to state, to federal, to international), the harder they are to implement too.
The general consensus is that the more people that are aware of the issues, the more we - as a group of individuals - can influence our local government. And hopefully that will cascade up the levels of authority.
I am dismayed that this seems such a difficult task (and one which may not work at all)and I wish I knew a way to fast-track it, or find some other effective way.
just interested to know what is a minimum wage/wealth? i think the more money we get the more content we will become with that living and the more we want. maybe we need to learn from people who have nothing. they are more content with the the little they. while they die of health issues such as malnutrient &preventable diseases
tz, you are really confusing me, from what i see in this life, decent wealth or any wealth has nothing to do with happiness or fulfillment. chasing wealth for happiness is like chasing the wind.
i like to believe that there is good in this world and governments are corrupt and trying to control me,
i see freedom and happiness in the most undesirable places,
as goods increase, so do those who consume them. and what benefit are they to the owner expcept to feast his eyes on them?
I'm not talking about financial wealth here but REAL wealth.
For example, a person who has enough purchasing power to provide 3 meals a day and shelter for his family, has an acceptable measure of wealth. Do you believe that every person in the world is entitled to this?
If a person cannot provide these things, then happiness is difficult! This is where happiness comes in.
Lets take another example: If a man has to work 2 shifts in order to achieve this minimum level of purchasing power, and all he has time to do is to sleep, eat and work - his life will be pretty drab. Leisure is an important part of life. don't you agree?
where are we going with this? so what is real wealth?
sorry i'm finding this very boring.
what if someone does not earn enough money to provide 3 meals aday and this does happen. walk the streets of melbourne after dark.
kids in third world countries dying though lack of clean water
can we be happy while this happens around us?
i sit in my nice little middle class house and do'nt feel the winter cold, play on my computer talking to people i do'nt know about what, how to save ourselves?
as a dream comes when there are many cares,so the speech of a fool when there are many words.
where are we going with this? We are talking about satisfaction with life. Do we want a better life? Are we disappointed with the direction our leaders are taking us? Can we do any better? If we can, which way do we go? Do we have the power to change anything?
I've already explained what I mean about real wealth, but you keep asking questions without telling me whether you agree with me, or what you think.
what if someone does not earn enough money to provide...Can we be happy while this happens around us?
Exactly what I am saying! This someone who cannot afford to live is being denied his rights! Neither he - nor us the onlookers in our middle-class houses - are happy about this.
But the world has plenty of resources to supply EVERYBODY with these basic rights.
These resources are being purposefully denied to the populations of the world. We look out and see "Poverty in the Midst of Plenty".
I am not happy about this, and even though I am only me, only one person, only a wage earner, only an amateur, etc., I refuse to believe that I can't do anything about it.
Words are powerless without action - I know, but I intend to do something - I just don't know yet what it is I should do, or how best to be effective.
Don't be cross with me. I'm just grappling with this stuff. I do the little things I can to help - like sponsoring poor children and providing toxin-free strategies (water filters & safe products).
I would even like to publish my views and solutions in the hope to gather support for change. (Perhaps that's the reason for blogging?) But right now, I'm struggling to find an effective way to help on the larger scale. I want to solve these social issues by going straight to the cause - not just band-aid measures but real solutions.
Otherwise we are just (and forgive the use of popular analogies):
"re-arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic", or "mopping up the flooded kitchen while the tap is still running", or "standing at the bottom of the cliff, helping injured people - but not constructing warning signs or fences at the top"
I do appreciate you contributions - (sorry if you find it boring)
i am sorry if i misunderstand your views, but do you have the answers or just questions?
are you looking to me for answers? sorry i don't have them and if i did have them would you just tear them apart?
you asked do we want a better life? yes we do but comes down to what you call a better and how i see a better life, it is a point of view depending on different factors.
I believe we are talking on a bigger level than just personal - but that's where it starts.
I believe I do have answers but I need input about how to get there.
I would not mean to tear apart your suggestions!
You are really getting to the crux of the matter here - before we can proceed with solutions, we need to come to a common point of view about "what is a better life". And not just for you and me, but for all people.
Are you up for the challenge? Are you willing to discuss this further?
If so, let's agree on where we want to go before we work out how to get there.
sorry to be this way but you seem to speak in riddles,
i getting too tired for this.
u say let's agree on some dierection, i find life more fun when i don't know where i am going or who i will meet, maybe if knew your goal i might follow, but till then i must go
i dont think everything has been a bandaid solution. anything that gives awareness to people of how big the gap really is between the poor and rich is has to be helping in some way. poverty is a massive issue thats not going to be solved overnight. everyone has a right to 3 meals a day& shelter& health because these kids are dying of preventable diseases, but i stil believe from what ive seen that they are happier with the little the have than what a lot people are with all the money things can buy them
Oh yes! I agree about the relative happiness of the poor. My wife & I went to India a couple of years ago and stayed in a semi-tribal village. What an eye opener that was - people were so very poor, but so very happy!
But if a community of people are poor BECAUSE the establishment that runs the community is bleeeding the people dry with excessive taxes etc., then shouldn't we be doing something? Shouldn't we at least be aware of the exploitation?
There is no justification for poverty amidst plenty (irrespective of employment status). And that is the current situation in most modern western industrialised countries.
I know this answer requires some further qualification - sorry if I'm talking in riddles again.
I'm pressed for time at the moment but I will start another blog soon to publish a running essay on the subject. I will lean heavily on authors such as Louis Even, C.H.Douglas, Bryan Monahan & Eric Butler.
u point out the problems but u don't show any answers? should we stand in front of bulldozers as they approach someone's village, or block police to stop poor people being evicted?
we are great pointing out faults and problems and blameing others and thing we have the answers.
it is fine to blame governments but look at these multi nation companies that screw us and countries and break laws and rules because they believe they are right.
give me some answers tz because i am starting to think your blog is a waste of space and time
63 comments:
Left people generally like to eat pancakes and right people don't. I think that's the main difference.
Your the first person ever to accuse me of being left.
Haha! :)
Teehee :D
You, my dear sir, are always... RIGHT!
Take it how you want it!
My understanding is that TOTAL LEFT is Totalitarianism - full control and ownership by the government - Communism or Socialism.
In this view, People exist to serve the state.
TOTAL RIGHT is Freedom and Anarchy - no rules. In this view, The people do what they want.
Both extremes are dangerous and inhumane!
"Politics" by definition, is the structure of policies or rules by which the society is to be run. Therefore, there is no TOTAL RIGHT in politics since by definition, any policy is an attempt to maintain some kind of order.
The need for some control is accepted: LEFT is maximum control, and RIGHT is minimal control.
So in Right Wing Politics, the State exists to serve the common good of the individual (to instigate and maintain common laws for the good of all).
It is a minimalist philosophy - that rules are there only to protect individuals and their association - the least control means the most freedom - Freedom within limits. The rules are there to prevent viloations against the individual, or actions which endanger the stability of the agreeable association of individuals.
Governmental control in the view of the RIGHT, is there to maintain the freedom and rights of the participating individuals within an agreed set of boundaries, but the more control the government has, the more to the LEFT the system becomes.
Now these are MY views, that's why I'm posting this - I'm not sure of how well MY use of these terms "fits" the common definition.
Help?
You say "the guys on the island were very left, helping and sharing".
This is going back to my very question "What is left?"
In my opinion, there is nothing left about them. They are not involved actively in this society for the society's sake, but for their own.
Yes, I concede (and love) that it is a collective effort for the common good. But it is for the common good of each individual.
There is "some" control, as they have all agreed to specialize & contribute.
So if you have a different concept of "left" than me, please explain.
That government wants us to remain in debt to control us, is a socialist strategy.
That, in my opinion is a strategy which supports more and more control over the individual - hence left (in my book).
Thanks for your input - give me more!
Let me think... Okay I'm stopping that it's giving me a brain ache. LEFT; a community management view of equality and communication to achieve a good living standard.
RIGHT; A community is free to do as they want within the laws with greater individual leadership and freedom to achieve a good living standard.
Oh, so Geoff ...
Both LEFT & RIGHT have the same goal - to achieve a good living standard?
Who decides what that living standard is? for L & R?
How is it enforced? for L & R?
I guess you're asking why bother with these issues.
The reason for my ravings is that I am concerned about the direction our leaders are taking us.
I see Povery amidst plenty, and it seems to be somehow intently engineered that way.
I want to understand.
I refuse to believe that I'm unable to learn.
I refuse to belive that I can't do anything about exploitation.
oops, by intently I really mean intentionally
bring on the revolution, power to the people
Yep, it's heavy.
And here I go again!
Yes we agree - we are both frustrated by what we see.
But what makes you say we are poles apart?
I also agree with you that government authority has taken us for a ride.
But that is true for all systems of government.
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
- Lord Acton
The communist in authority has a tendency towards the left - towards the increase of power.
The socialist in authority has the same tendency - but he has to do it more covertly!
Hence, Socialism. (or even softer - Fabian Socialism)
Someone once said that communism is merely socialism in a hurry.
Both systems are collectivist in nature - taking more and more power away from the common man and handing over more and more power to the authorities.
Trading freedom for security, quality for equality, global trade for national abundance, etc
Did you know that even our National Constitution is subordinate to International Treaties?
One rule for ALL people - regardless of religion, ethics, culture, morals, common good, or rationality.
Who decides our global laws - a cesspool of government officials who are on the payroll of the exploiters themselves.
(often unbeknowingly).
What we want is true representative government (govt. representing the people's requirements)
Not this sham democracy.
NOW I'M WARMING UP!
Well said my friend!
If we think we can't do anything about it, then yes, you're right - we're wasting our time - hey, let's just sit here and do nothing, eh?
I wish I could do something about it! But not only do I feel like I dont' have the power to do so, I also feel ill equipped to do so, and wouldn't know where to begin. The ideals of communism are amazing, although most people confuse it with socialism, which is not so great. But these things never work in practice because we dont' trust each other and we are inevitable selfish.
Hi Tink,
I refuse to believe that I can't do anything about it.
Yea, I feel like I'm only scratching the surface but the deeper I dig, the more curruption I find.
Is freedom and liberty worth fighting for?
Supposing you knew what to do - would you do it?
What country are you in?
Australia is Socialist although I don't think they would openly admit it.
Why do I attack socialism? Because even though their methods are different, their aim is the same as communism - total control.
They elevate control, piece by piece, from family to local gov't, from local to state, from state to federal, and ultimately to international control.
The average person has less and less power to voice his objections in the process.
That's why - my freedom is being eroded!
The freedom you have to do things is reducing.
I heard that the anti-terrorist laws now allow the police to enter your premises without a warrant.
I don't know if that is true - but heck!, they didn't ask anybody if that was ok with us now did they.
They are trading our freedom for a trivial (if not entirely ineffective) measure of improved security.
That their excuse for more control - like Port Arthur & gun control.
The money (or purchasing power) you have is diminishing too.
But that's another intriguing story.
And again you are right about the polly with the dream!
It must be the hardest job on earth - to be a polly with integrity.
Yep - they squash anyone they can't control.
Did you see the film "Dave"?
It's a fun film - Senator Nance was labelled "a boy scout" because he had ideas, and integrity.
How the hell did he get into the Whitehouse with those credentials????
We even have local examples of diligent people who were annihilated by gossip and political bagging, and then finished off quite nicely by the press.
Bye Blinky.
Good luck and God bless you - it's been interesting.
I would love to do something if I knew what to do. I guess I just feel powerless and I don't know what to do.
Well, we're obviously disappointed with what we've got.
I think the first step is to understand exactly what it is we want!
We've gotta have something to shoot at!
Your thoughts?
can someone coax blinky from his safty house, he may be right(not political right), come back blinky i like your comments
hey blinky you were right, taxes down for the rich and nothing for the unemployed and pensioners. please come back and talk some more
Who said that - here here - come back Blinky!
anon,
You've been "watching" this discussion - how about your input - Are you disappointed too?
What do you think we want?
i like to read more than comment, often words are shallow and hollow but often i hear gems, all questions but no answers, words and no action, and when there is action it is mostly the innocent to get hurt., but true to yourself and get your head down. hope blinky returns, he may start a revolution
ok anon,
Will you let us know occasionally if you're still reading?
Feel free to contribute - honest input from people like Blinky & yourself is priceless!
I wish communism worked in practice (in it's pure form as Marx proposed). I don't know of any society that has moved from socialism to communism.
Now be careful - Marx proposed the abolishment of religion!
Even family values are proposed to be subservient to the state!
Good discussion you've generated TZ!
I believe there is value in dialogue and discussion - even if there are no immediate solutions.
Who knows what opportunities will arise and when? History is not linear. there are unexpected turns in the road. Superpowers and cultures can die suddenly, unexpected new movements can emerge from nowhere - and evolve into very different institutions than the wise predicted... Just as the Ring of power seems within Sauron's infernal grasp, powerless little hobbits - or Koalas ;) rise up for 'such a time as this"
The battle will not be over in this age, evil in the hearts of wo/men will always erode the good and the weak but the faithful must always hope! Who knows when 4 children will reluctantly tumble through an old wardrobe and be used of Aslan to demolish the white witch's empire!
Too true revhead,
There are no "immediate" solutions.
But there ARE solutions.
And even if we are a minority - it doesn't mean we quit (aka. Church in the post-Christian era).
And even if we don't see the results in our own lifetime - it doesn't mean we quit.
In fact, I can't think of a good reason for quitting!
Ok, minus the fact that communism has to be your religion...
Yes, that's true Tink.
Marx proposed the abolition of Christianity in particular.
Either the state is to serve the people, or it is to control them - and Marx wisely understood that it is impossible to achieve control of free-thinking, personally responsible, land owning, family loving people like Christians.
Did you know that the first society to attempt communism (in the modern era) were the quakers?
Even with their devout Christian beliefs and practices, the saying of Lord Acton proved again to be true ...
that "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
It wasn't until they re-established private ownership of land and the resulting personal responsibility that they were able to recover from their pending disaster.
I'm not sure of the specifics of the situation, but I'm sure I can dig up some qualifying material.
Oh yes, and about moving from Socialism to Communism - These two terms, if they must be distinguished between, are merely methods of achieving the same ends (coercion/deception on the one hand and force on the other).
That common end is collectivist control - or Totalitarianism!
True kr,
These "tags" can be deceptive, or assuming.
However, some kind of agreed vocabulary is required to communicate anything at all.
Any suggestions (without just making new labels)?
i think you may have missed the point, we put people in a box depending on their political bias and we tend to shut the out and not listen to views whether we agree or disagree with their view. i am sad that people do not treat people as worthwhile,
Treating people as worthwhile is my whole point!
There are systems entrenched in society that do not serve the individual but rather - exploit them!
The healthcare system, the monetary system, the political system, etc.
Society should exist to serve the citizen, not the other way round.
For instance, why do our leaders send our troops to the Middle East to fight other people's battles?
In most cases the intent behind these military exercises are suspicious to say the least!
Why should we sell our freedom to support the commercial interests of our world neighbours?
(or gain their commercial favour)?
What price is too high?
(knight rider back, sorry lost password)
there is nothing suspicious about our role in the middl east and other places, it is all to do with greed, (look at the wheat joke & PM with his memory loss),
we did not sell our freedom, we have never had freedom in the first place to sell.
we as people do not seem any different, we all want power and wealth, depends where you are on the pecking order.
kr, re: your last comment ...
Paragraph 1:
I say "true" - I'm just being a bit soft in language.
Paragraph 2:
Sure - what little freedom we have, is becoming more and more blatantly removed from us.
But there is always freedom within limits, even though those limits are increasingly imposed upon us by the powerful.
For instance, Blinky said earlier that he has freedom to do things, but no money!
So he has an artificially restricted amount of freedom.
It is this increase in control (and consequential erosion of liberties) which I abhor.
Paragraph 3:
About POWER and WEALTH,
“We all want power and wealth” – again true, but to what extent?
Power to control others (irrespective of their wishes)?
Wealth at the expense of other people’s wealth?
These extents are beyond the wants of most people.
All people have a right (in my opinion) to the power to exercise their own freedom as responsible fellow citizens of this world, and to protect their family in their community.
All people have a right (in my opinion) to at least the minimum wealth which will enable them to lead a peaceful and fulfilled life.
With the assumption that personal freedom & the right to live a peaceful & fulfilled life are our inalienable rights, observe that the discussion about left & right, collectivism & individualism, etc., is all about accepting a proposed direction - either towards or away from our personal responsibility and ability to protect these rights.
go ahead and kill your neighbour, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of heaven, we can justify the end, ther'e w'ot be any trumpet blowing come the judgement day, when one tin soldier rides away.
sorry showing my age. bring back the songs and spirit of the seventies, what happen to the revolution.
what ever happen to the revolution.
what was that sky hooks line, we all got old... sorry can't remember the rest, gee showing my are as well. sorry knight rider, but they were good times
By "minimum wealth" I mean for a person to have enough money to live a decent life - which, I believe is the right of every person, whether he works or not!
Did I say anything about health?
Anyhow, yes - I believe that a decent life includes good health.
I believe this "decent life" is the right of every person to have.
I agree that it's an ideal, but we all (each and every individual) should have the freedom and power to pursue it.
knight rider back (sorry having trouble logging in)
so what is a decent life, my observation of people is quite different, you make statements but are there any answers
So what do YOU think is a decent life? - give me your minimum requirements!
Let's define it!
Of course there are answers, but they may be difficult to implement on a global scale.
The further our rights are removed from us (ie. up the scale from local, to state, to federal, to international), the harder they are to implement too.
The general consensus is that the more people that are aware of the issues, the more we - as a group of individuals - can influence our local government. And hopefully that will cascade up the levels of authority.
I am dismayed that this seems such a difficult task (and one which may not work at all)and I wish I knew a way to fast-track it, or find some other effective way.
Any suggestions?
by the way kr,
when you post a comment, you have choice of Blogger, Other or Anonymous.
If you chose other you can type an identity (not anon)
like this comment :-)
just interested to know what is a minimum wage/wealth? i think the more money we get the more content we will become with that living and the more we want. maybe we need to learn from people who have nothing. they are more content with the the little they. while they die of health issues such as malnutrient &preventable diseases
tz, you are really confusing me, from what i see in this life, decent wealth or any wealth has nothing to do with happiness or fulfillment. chasing wealth for happiness is like chasing the wind.
i like to believe that there is good in this world and governments are corrupt and trying to control me,
i see freedom and happiness in the most undesirable places,
as goods increase, so do those who consume them. and what benefit are they to the owner expcept to feast his eyes on them?
sorry should read governments are not corrupt,
I'm not talking about financial wealth here but REAL wealth.
For example, a person who has enough purchasing power to provide 3 meals a day and shelter for his family, has an acceptable measure of wealth. Do you believe that every person in the world is entitled to this?
If a person cannot provide these things, then happiness is difficult! This is where happiness comes in.
Lets take another example:
If a man has to work 2 shifts in order to achieve this minimum level of purchasing power, and all he has time to do is to sleep, eat and work - his life will be pretty drab. Leisure is an important part of life. don't you agree?
where are we going with this? so what is real wealth?
sorry i'm finding this very boring.
what if someone does not earn enough money to provide 3 meals aday and this does happen. walk the streets of melbourne after dark.
kids in third world countries dying though lack of clean water
can we be happy while this happens around us?
i sit in my nice little middle class house and do'nt feel the winter cold, play on my computer talking to people i do'nt know about what, how to save ourselves?
as a dream comes when there are many cares,so the speech of a fool when there are many words.
where are we going with this?
We are talking about satisfaction with life.
Do we want a better life?
Are we disappointed with the direction our leaders are taking us?
Can we do any better?
If we can, which way do we go?
Do we have the power to change anything?
I've already explained what I mean about real wealth, but you keep asking questions without telling me whether you agree with me, or what you think.
what if someone does not earn enough money to provide...Can we be happy while this happens around us?
Exactly what I am saying!
This someone who cannot afford to live is being denied his rights!
Neither he - nor us the onlookers in our middle-class houses - are happy about this.
But the world has plenty of resources to supply EVERYBODY with these basic rights.
These resources are being purposefully denied to the populations of the world.
We look out and see "Poverty in the Midst of Plenty".
I am not happy about this, and even though I am only me, only one person, only a wage earner, only an amateur, etc., I refuse to believe that I can't do anything about it.
Words are powerless without action - I know, but I intend to do something - I just don't know yet what it is I should do, or how best to be effective.
Don't be cross with me.
I'm just grappling with this stuff.
I do the little things I can to help - like sponsoring poor children and providing toxin-free strategies (water filters & safe products).
I would even like to publish my views and solutions in the hope to gather support for change.
(Perhaps that's the reason for blogging?)
But right now, I'm struggling to find an effective way to help on the larger scale.
I want to solve these social issues by going straight to the cause - not just band-aid measures but real solutions.
Otherwise we are just (and forgive the use of popular analogies):
"re-arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic", or
"mopping up the flooded kitchen while the tap is still running", or
"standing at the bottom of the cliff, helping injured people - but not constructing warning signs or fences at the top"
I do appreciate you contributions - (sorry if you find it boring)
are we talking on a personal level?
i am sorry if i misunderstand your views, but do you have the answers or just questions?
are you looking to me for answers? sorry i don't have them and if i did have them would you just tear them apart?
you asked do we want a better life?
yes we do but comes down to what you call a better and how i see a better life, it is a point of view depending on different factors.
I believe we are talking on a bigger level than just personal - but that's where it starts.
I believe I do have answers but I need input about how to get there.
I would not mean to tear apart your suggestions!
You are really getting to the crux of the matter here - before we can proceed with solutions, we need to come to a common point of view about "what is a better life".
And not just for you and me, but for all people.
Are you up for the challenge?
Are you willing to discuss this further?
If so, let's agree on where we want to go before we work out how to get there.
sorry to be this way but you seem to speak in riddles,
i getting too tired for this.
u say let's agree on some dierection, i find life more fun when i don't know where i am going or who i will meet, maybe if knew your goal i might follow, but till then i must go
i dont think everything has been a bandaid solution. anything that gives awareness to people of how big the gap really is between the poor and rich is has to be helping in some way. poverty is a massive issue thats not going to be solved overnight. everyone has a right to 3 meals a day& shelter& health because these kids are dying of preventable diseases, but i stil believe from what ive seen that they are happier with the little the have than what a lot people are with all the money things can buy them
Oh yes!
I agree about the relative happiness of the poor.
My wife & I went to India a couple of years ago and stayed in a semi-tribal village.
What an eye opener that was - people were so very poor, but so very happy!
But if a community of people are poor BECAUSE the establishment that runs the community is bleeeding the people dry with excessive taxes etc., then shouldn't we be doing something?
Shouldn't we at least be aware of the exploitation?
There is no justification for poverty amidst plenty (irrespective of employment status).
And that is the current situation in most modern western industrialised countries.
I know this answer requires some further qualification - sorry if I'm talking in riddles again.
I'm pressed for time at the moment but I will start another blog soon to publish a running essay on the subject. I will lean heavily on authors such as Louis Even, C.H.Douglas, Bryan Monahan & Eric Butler.
See you there!
u point out the problems but u don't show any answers? should we stand in front of bulldozers as they approach someone's village, or block police to stop poor people being evicted?
we are great pointing out faults and problems and blameing others and thing we have the answers.
it is fine to blame governments but look at these multi nation companies that screw us and countries and break laws and rules because they believe they are right.
give me some answers tz because i am starting to think your blog is a waste of space and time
New post!
Hello Knight Rider
Thank you for your comments.
Sorry if I just seem to be pointing out problems without offering any solutions.
I will offer solutions, but since this will require some detailed explanation I am going to start another post on the subject.
The title of the post will be "Social Credit" or "Poverty Amidst Plenty".
So watch this space!
hey tz wot's happening, that sun seems to raising each day and i am still alive. (if you call this life),
ps like you web on how bad water is for me. i now have a good reason to drink more beer and wine. cheers
Yep I'm still gonna publish - but I just want to get it right!
Be patient please - I'll post before the weekend is out!
hey tz, i'm not having a go at u, i just saying the world keeps turning, do't take lfe so serious
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